In a recent episode of the podcast 'You Should Know,' hosted by Ryan Leary and William Tincup, John Phillips, Group Vice President of Employee Experience at ServiceNow, delivered a candid critique of how organizations are measuring AI adoption. Phillips argued that counting how often employees use AI tools misses the point entirely. Instead, he asserts that the focus should be on whether jobs are completed faster, with less friction, and with better outcomes for both employees and the business. This discussion arrives as CHROs face mounting pressure to demonstrate AI productivity gains across increasingly complex technology stacks.
Phillips was blunt about the current state of the industry, describing it as a 'train wreck of productivity' caused by every system of record shipping its own AI agent. He noted that customers often arrive with eight purchased AI tools plus one they built themselves, none of which communicate with each other. This fragmentation creates chaos for practitioners, undermining the very efficiency AI is supposed to deliver. Phillips predicts a rapid shift in measurement: 'We're going to quickly stop talking about AI adoption as tool usage, and we're going to start looking at the outcomes and jobs to be done.'
The conversation also delved into the two-sided value exchange between employee and employer, questioning what happens to the 23 hours a tool claims to save. Phillips emphasized the importance of discretionary effort over traditional engagement surveys, advocating for hyper-personalization in understanding workforce sentiment. He also touched on the post-COVID collapse of work boundaries, which has contributed to burnout and an internal dialogue of 'am I enough?'
ServiceNow's approach, as Phillips described, involves layering an agentic companion across existing systems rather than ripping and replacing them. This 'AI control tower' vision stitches together 15 LLMs and 100 systems, providing a unified layer that orchestrates workflows. Phillips connected this philosophy to his personal experiences in refugee camps, noting that 'skills and talent is universal and opportunity is not,' underscoring the need for equitable access to technology and advancement.
The episode resonated with the hosts, as Tincup revisited his long-standing critique of engagement surveys, pressing Phillips on whether discretionary effort is a truer metric. Leary shared a personal story about applying to Home Depot and never receiving an acknowledgment email, illustrating the disconnect between technology and human experience. Phillips concluded with a powerful observation on high performance: 'High performance has both extreme focus and extreme recovery. It's in any environment, the highest performers in the world have those things.'
As organizations grapple with proving AI's value, Phillips' call to measure outcomes rather than adoption is timely. The episode is part of the WRKdefined Podcast Network, which delivers unfiltered conversations for those invested in the evolving world of work. With over 3.9 million verified monthly listeners, the show tackles pivotal leadership challenges, and this episode with John Phillips is available now wherever podcasts are heard.
